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Let's Push Things Forward

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Re: SRSLY?

(Anonymous)
No. No, it really doesn't need it's own language. I can't think of a more effective way of killing interest in Gnome development

Do I sense even a touch of sarcasm ?

This is precisely the type of cowardice I was referring to.

Do you really think it should take more than a couple of days for a programmer to learn a high-level language like python, actionscript... vala ? or javascript for that matter ?

We should not waste time with worries that others will not adapt, or that we will drive people away, instead we should strive to create something that is truly great... and when we're done and have something to show for it, then we can expect that others might follow the trend that _we_ set.

...than to require developers to learn a new language that's unique to Gnome, and absolutely useless for anything else they might want to do.

Let's take a pause here, and consider that there is a clear difference between what is the GNOME platform stack, and what is the GNOME desktop environment. This is useful to qualify what is meant by "unique to Gnome".

The stack is useful for many many things, we should be careful with our free-willed implementation of GNOME desktop specific APIs into core libraries such as GIO, that is where we are limiting ourselves in terms of where the stack will run (i.e. big warning signs already up... we don't want a repeat of libgnomeui all over again).

Yes so javascript has won the battle for this day, but I do hope that this current decision/trend is based on well founded technical reasoning, that vala has a long way to go before it can really shine, and that javascript bindings to our platform are generally more mature and stable. To think, on the other hand that we've made such a decision because we're afraid that we'll "kill interest in Gnome" is a sad thing to think (and that attitude is more likely to drive good developers away, I think).

But do our javascript bindings provide some native syntax for GSignal connections ? (this is something I would expect that vala already does).

Does javascript provide syntactic/declarative sugar, allowing one to define a variable which is automatically assigned to an internal child composite object defined in a GtkBuilder file ? (something that Objective-C does for .nib files, and is also naturally built into ActionScript) ... or syntactic sugar required to automatically declare an object method which responds to a GSignal emitted by an internal composite object ? (another thing Objective-C/NextStep has been doing forever... see how far we are behind ?).

These, IMO, are the virtues we should be looking for in a preferred language for Gnome, i.e. they make programming more efficient for practical reasons.

Regards,
-Tristan

NOTE: Yes I said "Java" and "JavaScript" probably in the same paragraph, I was under the impression that we are all a bit more mature than the current crowd on slashdot, my bad. I'm just trying to have a constructive conversation here, not trying to throw garbage around the room, please.

Re: SRSLY?

(Anonymous)
Eh... portions of the above were intended to be quoted, it seems the formatting did not do the cute italic thing, sorry for that.

"We should not waste time with worries that others will not adapt, or that we will drive people away, instead we should strive to create something that is truly great... and when we're done and have something to show for it, then we can expect that others might follow the trend that _we_ set."

Sometimes a person who is out in front is leading, sometimes that person is out for a lonely walk. You might not find out a long time down the road, after you've invested a lot of effort and time in a mistaken endeavor.

You have to expect that since the Gnome team is trying to increase it's visibility, it makes sense to use an imminently accessible language that people have heard of, not to intimidate them away with the specter of having to figure out new syntax along with all the bindings that are different from what they already know. At least that's how I'd feel.

And a lot of dislike for Javascript just comes from FUD of it. It's really very entertaining and challenging.

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