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treitter

Let's Push Things Forward

Maximizing social utility for fun and (modest) profit



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Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

(Anonymous)
> to improve one language to the point that development
> is as smooth as possible

The amount of improvement required to bring the GJS bindings up to the level of Python support is just ridiculous.

The amount of improvement to have an ecosystem of commercial quality javascript libraries to compare with the python ecosystem is equally ridiculous.

I can't believe this decision was made.

My speculation is the primary reasons that JavaScript was chosen c.f. python/other is

* shiny (i.e. moustached brogrammer community)
* gnome-shell extension community
* embeddability (especially as it relates to some future app distribution model)

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

My speculation is the primary reasons that JavaScript was chosen c.f. python/other is

You're right. That's speculation and not what happened.

We spent two days with experts in the top several most-popular GNOME programming languages before reaching our conclusion (based entirely on technical and process merits).

It's disingenuous (at best) for you to claim that we chose JavaScript because it's "shiny". I personally would have done all I could to prevent a choice on that criterion (but it honestly never came up).

Edited at 2013-02-03 02:26 pm (UTC)

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

(Anonymous)
We consider the reasons given

> Our language of choice needs to be dynamic and high level.

sure.

> There is already momentum in the GNOME Project for JavaScript -- it's used in GNOME Shell and GNOME Documents.

shiny

> There's a lot of work going into the language to make it especially fast, embeddable, and framework-agnostic.

Well the work is going into the engines, all N of them, yay.

What does embeddable have to do with GNOME (my point 3). What does framework agnostic even mean here. This whole GNOME chosen language is very framework gnostic (GNOME).

> JavaScript is increasingly being seen as a first class desktop programming language -- it us being used in Windows 8, mobile platforms, and for local web applications.

shiny

> JavaScript is self-contained -- it doesn't come with its own set of core libraries, which makes it more convenient for us when
> integrating it into the platform.

My point 3.


Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

(Anonymous)
In summary, JavaScript is the trendy new hotness. Totally fad-tastic!

(That's fine, but just be honest about it and don't act like it's a well considered opinion.)

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

JavaScript isn't a passing fad. It's been here a long time, it's widely-used, and thus won't be gone any time soon. All important things when choosing a language to promote for the future of our ecosystem.

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

> There is already momentum in the GNOME Project for JavaScript -- it's used in GNOME Shell and GNOME Documents.

shiny

No, "shiny" is "we're going to use this language because it has some neat new (unproven) technology"

Developer buy-in for a language is absolutely one of its most important features because it determines how much collective effort will be put into further development of the language, its supporting tools, etc.

> JavaScript is increasingly being seen as a first class desktop programming language -- it us being used in Windows 8, mobile platforms, and for local web applications.

shiny

Again, developer buy-in drives a lot of what makes a language useful.

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

(Anonymous)
Developer buy-in for a language is absolutely one of its most important features
Pretty much all the developers I know don't like javascript and just have to deal with it because of web development. I'm like many here, I really don't understand the choice...

Re: I agree with the anonymous poster above

(Anonymous)
I've been reading in a lot of places that the Gnome devs arrogantly think they know what's best and forge ahead without regard for the community. Treiter, every single thing you've said so far, and the way you've said it, has only confirmed in my mind that the Gnome core devs are exactly a bunch of arrogant, mustachioed hipster, fad-chasing, brogrammers.

I considered Gnome 3 a pretty serious error. Now... Gnome is dead to me.

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